This discussion forum has been created for participants to share ideas, information and breakthroughs related to the development of the innovative Keppe Motor technology.


    Motor test results

    Share

    gmeast

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2009-03-16
    Age : 65
    Location : S. California

    motor loading and timing

    Post  gmeast on Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:55 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I have finished building my eddy current loading brake. I also finished wiring a 115VAC-10VAC xformer, bridge rectifier and 65,000uF cap as my power supply to feed my Keppe motor. Monitoring the VAC into the bridge and large cap provides an accurate reading of the input power to my Keppe motor.

    Under load and with best timing there is nearly NO sparking or arcing at the reed switch ! !

    The motor is running at 960 (or so) RPM.

    I have adjusted the timing of my Keppe motor for best power under load. I have not received my digital scale I will use to measure torque but I'll post what I have now.

    Enjoy,

    Greg

    Here are the pictures:

    This picture shows the eddy current brake used to load the Keppe motor. As the magnet on the screw moves closer to the spinning aluminum disc, the motor gets loaded.


    This picture shows the timing adjustment used to produce best power under load. Notice the spikes going MOSTLY negative


    This picture shows a large volume of negative going spikes at the beginning of the stator coil oscillation.


    The next picture shows the stable AC power at 12.46V-RMS feeding the bridge and cap. It is nearly perfect sine wave ... suitable for computing input power.


    The next picture shows the transformer, bridge rectifier, cap and back of my Keppe motor.


    This last picture is the current my Keppe motor is drawing while running at 960 RPM under load and producing the above scope captures.

    gmeast

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2009-03-16
    Age : 65
    Location : S. California

    Evidence of Essencial Energy, ZPE, Vacuum Energy?

    Post  gmeast on Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:29 pm

    Hi all,

    Check this out. I took a look at my cap voltage only to find that it's sitting at 13VDC to 16VDC while the motor is running under load. So I started cranking the time scale down and saw what I think is going on with these pulsed motors. I have never thought to crank it down to the nanosecond scale before which is why I never saw this stuff.

    I have included three scope shots of the capacitor terminals:

    Greg

    This first capture shows the motor running and top of cap at a 500usec/div scale ... nothing spectacular so far.


    The next capture shows another somewhat familiar and expected picture of the coil's signature at 50usec/div


    But at the 10nanosecond scale you really see something incredible. If you look at the areas under the trace you can see an appreciable amount of charging ABOVE the 13.89VDC average voltage. In fact the scope says +29VDC (lower right). This appears to be a self-charging affect. This is happening near Gigaherts frequencies and might be evidence of ZPE's contribution, scalar?

    NeilSwe

    Posts : 7
    Join date : 2009-03-28

    Re: Motor test results

    Post  NeilSwe on Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:25 pm

    Hi gmeast,

    Thanks for sharing your work with us.

    It is an impressive test-setup you have accomplished !

    I had a hunch we had go to single digit micro-sec level to get the true dynamics of the motor,
    now you have shown what is happening down on the nano-sec resolution.

    Maybe something extraordinaly is happening here ...

    I have a few questions for you and I hope you can share the answers with us.

    1) What scope are you using (Tektronix DPO7000 500Mhz-3.5Ghz or something of that kind) ?

    2) How do you measure the current (with the same scope over a low resistance shunt, voltage drop over the resistance) ?

    3) If so can you measure the current simultanously (and show it on the screen as Channel 2, same sample-rate) ?

    4) If so can you have the scope multiply (after correction of the CH2 to get correct reading in Amps)
    CH1 (V) by CH2 (I) to get the Power-curve and maybe showing it as CH3 ?

    5) If so can the scope 'integrate' the Power-curve over a specified time (get the area under the curve) to get the electrical (input) Energy during that specified time ?

    6) If not can you export the datapoints (with that sampling-rate) to a PC to do the calculation there ?

    gmeast

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2009-03-16
    Age : 65
    Location : S. California

    testing and power measurements

    Post  gmeast on Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:05 pm

    NeilSwe wrote:Hi gmeast,

    Thanks for sharing your work with us.

    It is an impressive test-setup you have accomplished !

    I had a hunch we had go to single digit micro-sec level to get the true dynamics of the motor,
    now you have shown what is happening down on the nano-sec resolution.

    Maybe something extraordinaly is happening here ...

    I have a few questions for you and I hope you can share the answers with us.

    1) What scope are you using (Tektronix DPO7000 500Mhz-3.5Ghz or something of that kind) ?

    2) How do you measure the current (with the same scope over a low resistance shunt, voltage drop over the resistance) ?

    3) If so can you measure the current simultanously (and show it on the screen as Channel 2, same sample-rate) ?

    4) If so can you have the scope multiply (after correction of the CH2 to get correct reading in Amps)
    CH1 (V) by CH2 (I) to get the Power-curve and maybe showing it as CH3 ?

    5) If so can the scope 'integrate' the Power-curve over a specified time (get the area under the curve) to get the electrical (input) Energy during that specified time ?

    6) If not can you export the datapoints (with that sampling-rate) to a PC to do the calculation there ?

    Hi NeilSwe,

    The scope is a Tektronix TDS 1001B

    I am using step-down transformer to supply a full wave bridge and a 65,000uF cap for the DC supply. I am measuring the AC current feeding the bridge and cap with a VOM. Because of the big cap, the AC is almost a perfect sine and suitable for power determination. Besides, I didn't have a DC Power supply ... now I do.

    Monday I will be receiving my small high accuracy scale so I can measure mechanical torque just like in the video (torque reaction of the support frame). See my earlier post and you can see how it articulates. I still need to add the moment arm.

    I should add a low resistance shunt so I can display Amps concurrently since I do have a CH2 ... besides it would look very cool. I don't have a CH3 ... boo hoo.

    So by mid-week I should be able to measure input electrical power and output mechanical power and post the results here.

    Thanks for your comments. I will keep it all posted here.

    Peace,

    Greg

    gmeast

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2009-03-16
    Age : 65
    Location : S. California

    my initial efficiency test

    Post  gmeast on Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:13 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I have somewhat resolved my torque measurement issue involving my small digital scale (sample rate issues).

    I am posting here my first (mostly) complete data:
    The torque data comes from a small digital scale (-+ 0.2g)
    The current comes form a shunt = 5.1 ohms. No correction was made for the power dissipated by the shunt, so there's some more to add to the output efficiency.

    Load: 2 grams @ 2.33 inch torque arm
    Voltage: Pulse 16VDC
    Current: approx 75% of 0.196A Peak = 0.147Aavg
    (see picture - classic R-L inductor charge curve)
    Pulse Duty Cycle: approx 13%
    Motor Speed: 1001RPM

    Results:
    Input Power: 0.30576 Watts
    Output Horsepower: 0.000163022 H.P.
    Output Equivalent: 0.124615 Watts

    Efficiency: about 40% (without shunt power figured in)

    I think this is all right but any input is appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Greg

    Ch2 is the 5.1 ohm current shunt



    j greef

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2008-12-31
    Location : Europe

    Your load tests

    Post  j greef on Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:21 pm

    Hello gmeast,

    Great set-up and results. I'm trying to calculate the current and voltage on the coil using a theoretical model but my measuring tools are too inacurate to check that model. Would you mind sharing some more test set-up details so that I can calibrate my model ? The following info would be useful:
    * Coil resistance and inductance.
    * Resistance of other system components apart from shunt = 5.1 Ohm (e.g.: wiring, source internal resistance, ...).
    * More details about current when switch is closed.
    * Voltage drop details when switch is closed.

    It would also be interesting to see what happens if you switch the power source polarity (and disclose full details of such test). According to my model you probably will notice a peak in the current curve and then a drop (assuming same set-up as in your last post) and the motor speed will be slightly different. I may be totally wrong but that would just mean I have to revise my model.

    Regards.

    j greef

    gmeast

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2009-03-16
    Age : 65
    Location : S. California

    Re: Motor test results

    Post  gmeast on Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:20 am

    j greef wrote:Hello gmeast,

    Great set-up and results. ................................... The following info would be useful:
    * Coil resistance and inductance.
    * Resistance of other system components apart from shunt = 5.1 Ohm (e.g.: wiring, source internal resistance, ...).
    * More details about current when switch is closed.
    * Voltage drop details when switch is closed.

    ................................... you probably will notice a peak in the current curve and then a drop (assuming same set-up as in your last post) and the motor speed will be slightly different. .....................................
    Regards.

    j greef

    Hi, j greef,

    Thanks for your comments. I'd be happy to test some of these thing and post the results here. I can't help you with the inductance but the resistance, wire gauge, dimensions and # of turns can be used to estimate it. And, yes the polarity issue is interesting. I have noticed in my experiments over the years that it does indeed make a difference as to whether you are switching + or -. I haven't a clue as to why this is so but it is just something I have noticed. I'll look for your 'whooptie-doo' also.

    Regards,

    Greg

    gmeast

    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2009-03-16
    Age : 65
    Location : S. California

    polarity

    Post  gmeast on Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:55 am

    gmeast wrote:
    j greef wrote:Hello gmeast,

    Great set-up and results. ................................... The following info
    ................................... you probably will notice a peak in the current curve and then a drop (assuming same set-up as in your last post) and the motor speed will be slightly different. .....................................
    Regards.

    j greef

    Hi, j greef,

    ........................................... And, yes the polarity issue is interesting. I have noticed in my experiments over the years that it does indeed make a difference as to whether you are switching + or -. I haven't a clue as to why this is so but it is just something I have noticed. I'll look for your 'whooptie-doo' also.

    Regards,

    Greg

    Hi again j greef,

    Something in particular with the Keppe motor: Because of the enormous flux leak with the air-core design it is possible for the small neo reed switch magnet to act as a 'mini' rotor and respond to the coil with an addition or subtraction to torque depending on which pole of the neo is pointing outward from the shaft compared with the main rotor magnet(s). In the post by the Keppe Motor Team '...adding a light to your Keppe motor...' I noticed they have the neo stuck to a small shaft collar. If it is steel then it would serve to trap the influence of the switching neo magnet. If it's aluminum then ... oh well...don't know.

    Greg

    Ângela Stein

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-04-17
    Location : São Paulo, Brazil

    Re: Motor test results

    Post  Ângela Stein on Mon May 04, 2009 12:59 pm

    The collar is made of steel. Luckly, the magnetic field trapped in the steel cylinder is at right angle with the rotor and the coil.

    Keppe Motor Team

    j greef

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2008-12-31
    Location : Europe

    Multiple pulses

    Post  j greef on Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:29 pm

    Hi,

    Today I adapted my motor so that I can give more pulses per revolution of the rotor. Additionally, I got a power source that can give both + and – 5V.
    In the past I saw that the motor doesn’t work if you give 2 pulses 180° staggered using one battery only. However, if you switch the power supply polarity for the second pulse, all works quite well.
    Enclosed pictures show some results.
    A) Base case: 1 pulse only (+5 Volts) gives approx 1000 rpm



    B) 2 pulses; 180° staggered (+5 / -5 V) gives approx 1160 rpm



    C) 3 pulses (number 2 and 3 overlap) gives approx 1250 rpm



    D) 2 pulses say 30° staggered (overlapping) no exact reading available, +/- 1200 rpm



    The results clearly show that extra pulses can increase rotor rpm.
    With this setup, the difference between case B and C is minimal. You’ll see that I cheated a bit with picture D (= touched up picture C) but the difference in rpm between those cases is marginal indeed.
    With other setups (e.g. change position of the little magnet on the shaft) the result can be different. I had a case where 2 pulses gave higher rpm than 3 pulses.

    If you want to try yourself:
    · Power supply for + and –5 V: I used an old PC power supply but you can also do it with batteries.
    · For extra pulses you have to add extra switches.

    j greef

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2008-12-31
    Location : Europe

    Re: Motor test results

    Post  j greef on Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:19 am

    Hi,

    Some more test data: I checked the influence of coil layout and magnets on the induced voltage in that coil. The pictures below give a summary of the results:



    Induced voltage waveform:
    The induced voltage curve in most cases has not a sine-type form. Mind that the figures presented here are approximations only (since based on screendump readings from an analogue oscilloscope).
    In an earlier post, I estimated that the motor efficiency was equal to “0.634 x peak induced voltage / battery voltage”, based upon the assumption that the induced voltage would be a sine type one. Based on the test data listed above, that formula might be revised to:

    Efficiency = “constant x peak induced voltage / battery voltage”

    With “constant” = 0.634 to 0.8 (depending on the motor layout)

    Induced voltage values:
    Depending on the layout, the peak values of the induced voltages varied a lot. The figures below relate to a battery voltage of 8 Volts.

    Windings(total)Peak [volts] rpm Average [volts] Volts /1000 rpm Per 1000 windingsEfficiency %
    Base case 1000 5.41390 3.672.64 2.64 46
    Standard motor 6004.35 17602.96 1.68 2.8 37

    single coil motor, small cage
    685 4.3 15203.44 2.26 3.3 43
    Rotated shaft 1000 5.8 12903.83 2.972.97 48
    Rotated shaft + Double magnets 1000 6.8770 4.495.83 5.8356

    One can see from the above table that a more efficient motor can be made by increasing the number of windings and using stronger magnets. Less windings seam to lead to higher motor rpm figures. The rotated shaft motors ran considerably slower than the normal ones and even slower when a second set of magnets was added (quite logically: more magnets = more load on the shaft). Please note that by doubling the number of magnets, the induced voltage per rpm too almost doubled (from 2.97 to 5.83).
    Whether or not a single coil would perform better than a double one cannot be concluded from the above data (because for that motor I used a smaller cage so the magnets were closer to the coil).

    Please comment.

    rockback

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2010-09-05

    Re: Motor test results

    Post  rockback on Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:24 am

    Thanks for your advice.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Motor test results

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:23 pm