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    Use Keppe motor to charge a battery

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    traveldan30

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2009-12-12

    Re: Use Keppe motor to charge a battery

    Post  traveldan30 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:07 pm

    j greef wrote:
    * you write you use a 22000 F capacitor, isn’t that an error, I would expect something in the mF or µF range.
    * the capacitors you use are for DC only ?
    * I suppose that what you call the reference battery = load battery = battery that would be mounted in parallel over the capacitor in the above schematic ?

    J Greef

    J Greef,

    You have got it. That is the circuit.

    Also I have missed out the micro from the cap value. It should be 22000 uF.

    The caps I use are DC. I did not think of using AC caps for some odd reason.

    Reference battery is the source. The load battery is in parallel with the original reed switch and serial to the diode. Connecting the cap in parallel with the load battery can be done. I just don't know what effect that would have on the charging of the load as the cap will buffer the high voltage peaks.

    Unfortunately I don't have free access to a scope so there is much that I cannot measure.

    Thanks for your good analysis of the subject. I have gained much from it.

    j greef

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2008-12-31
    Location : Europe

    Re: Use Keppe motor to charge a battery

    Post  j greef on Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:03 am

    Hi traveldan30,

    Is this the circuit you had in mind ?



    The switches are staggered 180°.

    Some comments:
    * you write you use a 22000 F capacitor, isn’t that an error, I would expect something in the mF or µF range.
    * the capacitors you use are for DC only ? When I mount an AC capacitor over the reed switch the motor keeps running smoothly and the voltage peaks when the switch opens are strongly reduced (from say 200 V to 20 V if I use a 1 µF capacitor).
    * with my motor, the switch closes approx 60° and that angle increases after some time to 90°(see earlier posts).
    * I suppose that what you call the reference battery = load battery = battery that would be mounted in parallel over the capacitor in the above schematic ?

    Regards,

    J Greef

    traveldan30

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2009-12-12

    Re: Use Keppe motor to charge a battery

    Post  traveldan30 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:23 am

    j greef wrote:
    * In my case the load battery was charged very quickly but it seemed to have charged very little energy (since it discharged very fast when used as a source, some 30 x faster than the reference battery).

    J Greef,
    That is what I found as well. I have hooked up a 16V, 22000 farad capacitor. The voltage, as is with caps, is maxed out immediately, but it takes the current some time to fill up. My understanding is that batteries works much the same, however the voltage takes much slower than that of a cap.

    Here is another test I am working on. First the theory.
    The triggering magnet turns the original reed switch on for about 30 degrees of the 360. This leaves roughly 330 degrees where the current flow from the battery is cut. If the diode is removed and a cap is placed over the reed switch, it causes troubles when the switch is turned on. This is the reason for the diode. What if the diode can be bypassed while the battery is disconnected from the motor for that 330 odd degrees and used to flash charge the reference battery? The following configuration only uses 30 degrees of the 360 to flash charge.

    The configuration is as follows.
    Connect a capacitor where the load battery is, that is negative polarity on the black alligator clip and the positive side on the diode, which is connected to the red alligator clip. Use a cap with a voltage rating slightly higher than the reference battery and a very fast discharge curve. I use 16V 470uF. (My reference battery is 12V, series configuration of 8 used Alkaline C-cell batteries}
    I have then connected another reed switch over the diode, and placed it on the opposite side (180 deg) of the original reed switch. Be careful at the placement of this switch, as the rotor magnet can trigger this switch and cause both switches to short out.
    A further test is to increase the angle between the original switch and the diode switch such that to give the cap ample time to charge and similarly ample time to discharge. More switches could also be used to increase the discharge time.

    I have not had time to do proper tests and measurements with this. One thing I have learned is that if the switches short out, remove all power sources and tap the switch with something. This will cause the blades to detach.

    Let me know if this description is not clear, and I can try to rephrase or add a circuit diagram.

    Regards

    traveldan30

    j greef

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2008-12-31
    Location : Europe

    Re: Use Keppe motor to charge a battery

    Post  j greef on Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:24 am

    Hi traveldan30 ,

    Your system to charge a battery seemed very easy so I tried it and it seems to work.

    Test details:
    * diode: 1N4007 (9255)
    * source: 9.8 V DC source
    * load battery: standard 9V alkaline (6LR61, Duracell MN1604). The battery was +/- flat when the test started (0.2 V measured)
    * reference battery: standard 9V alkaline (6LR61, Energizer). 8.75 V at beginning of test.

    Results:
    Test 1: loading of battery:
    * after some 15 minutes the load battery voltage was 8.7 V
    * near the end of the test, the motor rpm dropped down (no exact readings but say –50% rpm)

    Test 2: used load and check battery as a source: run motor during 60”.
    * charged load battery: voltage dropped from 8.4 to 7.5 V = 0.9 V / minute
    * reference battery: voltage dropped from 8.75 to 8.72 V = 0.03 V / minute

    Conclusions:
    * My test confirm your ones: with a Keppe motor you can indeed (re)charge a battery.
    * In my case the load battery was charged very quickly but it seemed to have charged very little energy (since it discharged very fast when used as a source, some 30 x faster than the reference battery).
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    Admin

    Posts : 44
    Join date : 2008-12-17
    Location : Sao Paulo, Brazil

    Re: Use Keppe motor to charge a battery

    Post  Admin on Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:55 pm

    Congratulation, you got it!

    Best regards,

    Keppe Motor Team

    traveldan30

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2009-12-12

    Use Keppe motor to charge a battery

    Post  traveldan30 on Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:25 pm

    Hi All,

    I have been working with my Keppe motor for a few months now, and I have figured out how to get the device to turn a fan and charge a battery at the same time.

    The only addition to the standard Keppe motor is a diode.

    The way it works is to replace the 90v neon lamp with a load battery. At the positive terminal of the load battery, you need to connect a diode. The diode is connected with the white stripe on the side of the positive terminal of the load battery, and the other side of the diode connected to the red alligator clip.

    As simple as that!

    My setup at this very moment is a very flat 9v Alkaline battery (6.75v) as my source, and the load battery is a 12v discharged lead acid UPS battery. The load battery will be full in a few hours, and then I can change the two batteries around so that the 12v battery can drive the Keppe motor, and the 9v Alkaline battery can be re-charged.

    I can almost hear many of you saying it is not possible to recharge alkaline batteries. It is dangerous and all that. Under normal charging conditions this is true. However the scalar energy generated by the keppe motor is of a high voltage and low current, so the battery being charged does not heat up.

    The diode in the system allows me to connect 3 x 12V batteries in series. When the batteries are fully charged, the reverse bias of the diode (40v) is overcome and the source battery starts to be charged.

    I am still working on tests and measurements to get an exact understanding of what I am experiencing. I will keep you updated when I learn more.

    I hope this knowledge is helpful to some. Thanks also to Mr Bedini who is an inspiration in this work.

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